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Episode 7
Digital Advertising in the Finance World
About This Episode
We look at the digital transformation in the financial services and banking industry, and how it accelerated due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Rob Assimakopoulos | CMO, CIBC
Share Ryan | Account Executive, StackAdapt
Transcript
Episode Introduction (00:00:00)
Messaging sort of has to move at the speed of culture. And I have not seen a time when in such a short window we had to go from, you know, first of all, just be there as a brand and show that you care to urgently provide messaging on benefits of support and things like that, to providing messages of utility and highlighting benefits of your brand that are particularly useful to people. So moving to the utility, and now sort of people are starting to look at stores opening and things like that. So now what is the message about is it about recovery and prospering and prospering in a new way?
How Agencies Thrive Introduction (00:00:46)
Curious to know what industry leading marketers are looking to achieve and the ever evolving digital landscape to how agencies Thrive podcast by StackAdapt is dedicated to helping the new breed of forward thinking savvy, lean and mean marketers win in the rapidly evolving digital landscape. Time to thrive.
Vitaly (00:01:14)
Thank you for joining us today. My name is Vitaly Pecherskiy. I’m the co-founder of StackAdapt. And I’m the host of this podcast. Today we have a very special episode because we’re welcoming Rob Assimakopoulos, Chief Marketing Officer over at CIBC bank, one of Canada’s largest banks. This is one of our longer episodes, and we’ll cover a wide range of topics from the idea that some products are being bought, while other products are sold. And how to think about the marketing strategy when your product falls into either one of those categories. To insights into how CIBC is team uses media mix modeling to connect traditional and digital channels to understand how brand building translates into bottom of the funnel outcomes, and how it builds lasting brand that is defensible against economic downturns and competition. In this episode, there’s a wealth of relevant insights for marketers outside of the financial industry. So I urge you to continue listening. I truly think marketers in any industry can take away so much from this conversation. I can’t be more excited to welcome Rob Assimakopoulos from CIBC for today’s episode.
Cher (00:02:16)
Hi, and welcome to another episode of How Agencies Thrive, a StackAdapt podcast. My name is Cher Ryan. I am an account executive here at StackAdapt. And today we’re joined by Rob Assimakopoulos from CIBC. Today’s episode is going to be focused on digital advertising within the finance vertical how data and measurement play a role within the changing landscape of banking, and the generational perceptions of banking that affect the financial verticals marketing messaging. Rob Assimakopoulos is the Senior Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer of CIBC, as well as being a board member on both the Canadian Cancer Society as well as the Canadian Marketing Association. Rob has had a long career spanning across verticals such as automotive CPG, and sports entertainment, before finally arriving at CIBC. I appreciate you joining us today, Rob.
Rob (00:03:06)
Glad to be here.
Cher (00:03:09)
Just to kind of start off, I know that when we originally connected the world seemed quite different, which seemed I think it was about a month ago. And we were smack dab in the middle row following the shelter at home guidelines, which has since changed, but 2020 has definitely proven that things can change quite quickly and the financial vertical is no stranger to that. So how have you seen the financial vertical undergo a digital transformation in the past two years? Five years? 10 years?
Rob (00:03:35)
Yeah. How about this last few months, though? Thank you. Yeah. Well, over the past decade, the financial vertical and more than a decade, financial vertical has been undergoing a digital transformation. That has been, you know, I would say at times, very quick, at times gradual, I suppose it is sort of followed the pace of technology in many ways. But what we’ve seen in the last few months, is is something that I don’t think any of us would have predicted the necessity to change became quite urgent in the last few months. And what was kind of astounding to see, at least in our places, how quickly and how capably technology was stood up to serve people. When you think about people needing access to money, not getting the same access, they had to some of the physical presence that that, you know, the banks have, we needed to move much more quickly than I think we were ever accustomed to doing. And what was incredible is when a government program is going to be stood up in let’s say, a week, you need to get a form built. It’s got to be right. It’s got to work. It’s got to connect with, you know, with other partners that that are fulfilling, fulfilling some of these benefits and and it’s got to be reliable. So what’s what’s really encouraging is to see like technology is complicated. So when you have to when standard technology in any context, you have to test and retest and things like that. What was incredible is all the steps were done so quickly on such a compressed timeline. The tools are there now, when the will is there, the speed of change is absolutely astounding.
Cher (00:05:21)
And do you find that, you know, in the digital space that was obviously such a massive, very quick pivot? Do you find that in an entire marketing mix where there is traditional and there is, you know, other forms of media that you can use to sort of reach your audience? Did you find that, you know, those forms of marketing media, were also able to pivot quickly? Or did you find that digital had a different sort of nuance to it that allowed it to pivot so quickly?
Rob (00:05:51)
Well, I think, you know, the urgency that’s been created in the marketplace, forced everyone to change quickly. You know, when we’re when we’ve been executing a broad set of marketing plans across all mediums, and I guess I found, whether it was television, or print and news media, or digital, everyone moved quickly. Trafficking, you know, physical assets, was quicker on compressed timing. And of course, there was technology to help facilitate that. I think the speed of change everywhere was astounding and quick, I mean, even go to places like right now, a small variety store will all of a sudden have a plexiglass wall, at the cash register, within minutes, because they need to keep going. And now everywhere you go this plexiglass wall. So the speed of change isn’t limited to technology, for sure. What is obviously prevalent in technology is the tools and the ability to pivot are probably more present there than they are anywhere else.
Cher (00:06:54)
And do you think that, you know, post COVID? A lot of conversations right now are sort of around what post COVID, the post COVID era is going to look like? Do you think that you know the speed at which we sort of moved during the crisis? At least in the thick of it? Do you think in post era that that momentum is going to stay up? And what are really the factors that are going to help keep that momentum going?
Rob (00:07:20)
You know, the only reference point I would have is probably referencing previous crises, or previous events that catalyze change. I think it truly people are creatures of habit. So I think people will settle into more moderate speeds, and things things of being more deliberate. taking more time to think things through, I always say that work expands to fill the time. And so an urgent climate will create a different set of circumstances than perhaps a climate where enough things are less urgent. It’s not even just about technology, and change. It’s about fundamental human behaviors. Today, you know, you see people doing things that they never otherwise would have, you see people washing their hands, you see people wearing masks, you see people avoiding each other. And you see people making very quick decisions at times with less regard for, you know, could happen if this is wrong. I see a lot of people leaning into decisions quickly. And I think it’s part of the climate post COVID I think things will settle down. But I think some of these habits will be enduring. And I think given the extent of this crisis, what will happen is technology will become more important, because doing business out of proximity, has become much more of a concern for people.
Cher (00:08:44)
Oh, that yeah, that’s definitely true. We’ve definitely have seen that it, you know, in terms of like the work from home and the changes in way, organizations are sort of keeping teams safely apart. But during the COVID, you know, in the thick of the crisis messaging was such a huge concern across every single vertical. And when it comes to the financial vertical, you know, messaging was, it might have been sort of taken on a different approach, versus sort of the post COVID era. And what kind of messaging was sort of important, what kind of things did you think about when you were, you know, in the thick of things in terms of how you were going to speak to your customers? Because it seems like, you know, before then the messaging was very brand related. And then during the COVID situation, it seemed like a lot of advertisers were confused and a little lost about how much to sympathize how not to patronize and so what was sort of important in the financial market to reach your consumers in a meaningful way?
Rob (00:09:47)
Yeah, it’s a great question and it continues to be debated messaging sort of has to move at the speed of culture. And I have not seen a time when in such a short window, we had to go from, you know, first of all, just be there as a brand and show that you care to urgently provide messaging on benefits of support and things like that, to providing messages of utility and highlighting benefits of your brand that are particularly useful to people. So moving to the utility, and now sort of people are starting to look at stores opening and things like that. So now what is the message about is it about recovery and prospering and prospering in a new way, all of these sort of, you know, I described sort of four different windows. And each and every one of them has been relevant. There’s a little noise out there where some pundits start to lob in, you know, their opinions on what brands should be communicating. But I would not listen to the pundits brands should be listening to their customers. And if brands are confused, it’s because they’re not really they don’t have a finger on the pulse of their customers or their clients. The way we handle it is on a pretty regular basis, in many cases daily. In other cases weekly, getting are getting a good understanding of what people are concerned about. Looking at the trends of those things is they’re concerned about financials trending down or up, is they’re concerned about health trending down or up. What do they care about now at this red hot moment. And the beautiful thing about some of the tools we have in place is we can pivot our messages, we can put out a message on our get on our social channels, organically. So our clients see what the most relevant message is, and what the most relevant benefit is for them today. So I’ll give you an example we have this, we have this benefit on our credit cards called paste it. And you know, typically, to put an ad campaign together, it will take a few weeks, within three or four days, we had ads out there on CIBC pacer and emails to our clients. Why? Because the pace at capability means you could take certain purchases from your credit card and put them on lower interest installment payments, so you could smooth out your payments, you know, that is a form of deferral. Now, that’s something that we launched last year, and anyone could do at any time. But in this red hot moment, that item became relevant. And it was a piece of a useful service that our clients could take, take hold up. So pivoting on messaging to have utility using the digital tools that we had to put that messaging out quickly. And making sure we serve them that and hang on, you know, you can’t can’t exhale yet because tomorrow, they’re concerned about the next thing. So that’s sort of in the pace of, of the pace we’ve been working at. Hopefully that gives you a flavor for what it is we see in the marketplace and how we adjust our messaging. And of course, the tools they follow. And you know, you can tell we have optimization that makes sure that the message gets out to the right people at the right time. And you look at some of the diagnostics to see whether or not people are actually consuming that message. Because as soon as they start to soften on the message, it’s time to go and rethink what you’re going to share with your clients.
Cher (00:13:09)
Interesting. Yeah. And that kind of brings up a point about data, right, were one of the biggest things that we’ve seen, you know, during this crisis was that data was shifting, and everybody in the industry was really taking a look at where this data was shifting and how it was shifting, as well as why that was happening at a very nuanced low level. So you know, when you’re kind of speaking about these different financial products that you know, exist, and suddenly certain ones become more relevant, more important and significant to these to, you know, your customers, your consumers who are now thinking of thinking differently during this crisis. And then, you know, sort of understanding the diagnostics of the data that was rendered from that. And under using that to sort of pivot. When you’re looking at sort of a digital media mix, and you’re looking at your traditional media, and you’re trying to look at everything that you’re using to get that messaging out there. You know, how do you really sort of put all that together, piece it all together in a way that makes sense, so that you fully and holistically understand whether a product or financial product or the messaging is working?
Rob (00:14:18)
Well, you know, that’s a great question. I think, I believe that the best marketers make good use of a holistic data set that comprehends the, let’s call it they stitch a sort of a golden thread from mental availability to physical availability. Those those brands and companies who are sort of vertically integrated, that that own that own their own distribution network, have a wealth of data that they can use to determine whether or not a message way at the top of the funnel lead to an outcome at the bottom of the funnel. I think the mistake There are a couple of mistakes people make when it comes to data. First of all, they only look at one part of the picture. So, for example, if you only look at your upper funnel data, like you know whether or not someone recalls your television ad or engaged with a social post, and neglect whether or not they actually change their behavior or change their point of view on you, you’re not seeing the whole picture. So it’s equally important to make sure a message or a stimulus was received, accepted and understood by your customer, as it is to understand was their journey to an ultimate, you know, purchase or outcome? Was it seamless? Did it happen? As you would expect, people make mistakes on data. By only looking at lower funnel data, looking at clicks, looking at actions. And assuming that that’s the whole universe we do is we, we use media mix modeling, to make sure that we understand the intersection between traditional and digital media, and the effect of all of our media mix on outcomes and sales. So to oversimplify things, we know that for certain products we need to use, we need to use advertising more than for other products, some products are bought, some are sold, some of our services are consumed in a way that means they need to hear about them first. So we use media mix modeling to tell us to a very high statistical correlation, is there an outcome from this media and what media mix produces the most, the best and most efficient outcome? So we use that at a strategic level, you can do media mix modeling every day, we use that to set plans at a strategic level. And then on a daily basis, we use digital metrics to determine whether or not you know, we’re we’re performing as we should. So you know, for example, you’ll keep guardrails around your cost per acquisition for some of your product advertising and you look to stay within those guardrails and you make sure that you, you link that to what you have determined in your media mix model to be optimal performance. So that’s how we use it. And but I think I can’t stress enough that people tend to fall into these rabbit holes to say, look at all the clicks and engagements I got it was a successful campaign, or look at the recall I had in a TV ad, it was a successful campaign, or my cost per acquisition was really low. So it was a successful campaign. That’s not the whole picture. And that’s where I find the mistake happens, because look, when digital data became so readily available, we fell so in love with it, we ignored what was happening in the world around it. And so I can’t stress enough how important it is to look at everything.
Cher (00:17:56)
So, you know, you were kind of mentioning that you were referring to sort of this low funnel activity, you know, the most clicks the most conversions. And, you know, oftentimes when, you know, when you’re when you’re buying and training sort of on the on digital media, that that is often from one perspective, sort of the keys to success. And and I think it’s because there’s a there’s a huge emphasis on return on adspend. And, you know, how exactly are products being sold? Given, you know, what we’re investing in the media, and in cases where brand awareness and brand based marketing versus product selling? And you know, those two different marketing activities exist in the same world? And attribution seems to be sort of this esoteric experience, how do you really sort of justify the return on adspend? When attribution is really challenging at a very upper funnel brand marketing level?
Rob (00:18:56)
Yeah, good question. There is a wealth of secondary data. And you can collect primary data yourself to do this. There’s a group in the UK called The Institute of practitioners in advertising. There’s a great study that was done by that organization called the long and the short of it, they collected data from 1000s of companies globally. And they were able to prove that brands that leveraged very balanced media plans with strong use of good storytelling mechanisms like television, and print, balanced very well with a digital media mix. Brands that had 60% of their messaging or their advertising, selling the brand selling benefits, not trying to close them not trying to push them in the funnel, but literally selling brands and benefits. They had higher market share. They had more favorable pricing, and they were more profitable. We ourselves through our media mix modeling have determined very similar proportions. So a healthy set of messaging to give your brand attractiveness and mental availability to tell customers why you’re here. And what you do is is is, is paramount brands that overcorrect to sort of by now convert now kind of messaging underperform dramatically. So again, when I talked about performing media mix modeling, we collect all that data and can determine what the efficient frontier is of our spend. So we know where we get the maximum ROI at what level of total spend, we also know which products respond better to advertising, which don’t, we know to a high statistical correlation, how much business we get, how many account opens we get from different forms of advertising. By knowing that, and knowing the profitability of your business, we can put a very fine point on the return on media spend return on adspend. So it comes down to data. Now people will often if they don’t have that kind of data, they’ll measure sort of circumstantial outcomes, you know, I’ll put out a campaign in August, and my sales in August in September were up, you know, 4% versus year ago. And so all attribute that to the advertising, media mix modeling and doing some doing sort of multivariate regression analysis is necessary, because you need to factor out economics, you need to factor out seasonality, you need to factor out pricing anomalies, you need to factor out offers that may have been in play. So you got to factor them out to get a pure read on your media, in order to get a good return on adspend data points.
Cher (00:21:51)
Right. And you, you have your you know, you briefly touched on sort of identifying a brand, and its values to customers really pinpointing sort of what makes your brand your brand in the market. And so, you know, value is obviously key for customers, everybody’s always looking to figure out, you know, how this is going to serve me if I’m going to pay for it, I want to know what I’m getting in return. And, you know, when you’re looking at the financial vertical, there’s a lot of regulatory things that are established in that vertical specifically, that can make sort of, you know, being a differentiator a little bit challenging. So how does data sort of help you understand, you know, where your value is differentiating yourself in the competitive landscape?
Rob (00:22:41)
That’s a good question. I don’t know if data helps me establish differentiation in the marketplace among financial institutions. I’m a big believer in brands, whether anywhere because it’s not just financial institutions that are undifferentiated, it’s actually virtually every category that does not have a patent, or a specific product attribute that is unique. You know, if you look at, look at something as simple as the smartphone category, ostensibly, before you actually experience any of those things, if you list the qualities of an iPhone and an Android phone, they’re virtually identical. They are in differentiated. If you list the qualities of a one burger joint to the next burger joint, they’re virtually identical. So how do you differentiate yourself? Well, part of it is experiential. So it looks, feels, smells tastes differently, how you serve it. The biggest thing you can do to differentiate yourself in the marketplace, is to establish a distinctive brand identity that’s rooted in a purpose. I’m a big believer in brands that are very clear on who they are, why they exist in the role they play in people’s lives. So there’s a reason why Nike stands above many other shoe brands, because they have led, they have been a purpose based organization. Nike believes that if you have a body, you’re an athlete, and their purpose is to inspire and enable the athlete in all of us. So, you know, if you look at Lloyds Bank, in the UK, they’re very clear. They their purpose is to help Britain prospects. A lot of brands, state their purpose, but not many of them are as mind opening is the two brands I just described. Walmart’s purpose is to help you save money so that you live better. And so that’s how you distinguish yourself by actually being very clear about the role you play in people’s lives. Now, of course, when you wrote tests that you wrote, test, all kinds of messages and stimuli and Things like that, that will or will not resonate. That’s where data comes to play. So, you know, in the advertising space, you have to Plan Do Check and act, you have to plan it. Well make sure you understand your, your clients mindset, you execute, you check and make sure that it got through. And that it was understood that main messages were understood that you had a reputational bump. And you act to countermeasure, if you see any of those metrics, swaying off of your, your objectives going in.
Cher (00:25:31)
And it’s interesting that you mentioned sort of the apple, you know, Android, I guess, brand war that exists, because it truly, you know, people who are Apple fans are almost diehard Apple fans, and people who are Android fans are diehard Android fans, and, you know, the crossover in the switching over is, you know, very oftentimes minimal unless, like you said that there is something that is a massive differentiator in the market, but oftentimes, you know, in that, in that scope of things, we’re seeing, you know, an extra camera, an extra zoom, a portrait mode, right, and they’re just kind of competing against each other, sort of climbing through their marketing. And so when you’re looking at, you know, what this really seems to highlight, to me anyways, is this, this idea of brand loyalty, and, and sticking with a brand that really means something to you. And banking oftentimes does have a very personal experience with people, it has a very emotional experience for people because it’s their money, right? The black and white of their money, and it’s not just transactions that you make, it’s, it’s really about an entire level of trust, it’s an entire level of what that bank stands for, and how you stand with them. And how the bank stands with you, frankly. So when you’re looking at sort of generating this, this loyalty, and you have an existing customer base, oftentimes in in a generational perspective, you know, young people, you’ll see that because they have, you know, not a lot of financial independence, and they’re sort of developing that financial investment in themselves. And their future. They’re, they’re more willing to be, you know, switching and their brand loyalty hasn’t yet been established. And then you have, you know, sort of the older demographics who are very brand loyal, because they’ve already invested in their bank, they’ve had a lifetime to grow and develop and build their future with that bank. So, you know, how do banks really, you know, keep that brand loyalty and speak to those different generations that are looking at banking in through their generational perspective?
Rob (00:27:36)
Yeah, you know, there’s so many things that came to mind as you were, as you were describing loyalty in that context. As far as I’m concerned, you either have fans or hostages, okay? And hostages are people who are so invested. And, you know, can’t be bothered to move or have too much invested with you, and had been there a long time and why bother, but I’m still not happy. You know, fans are people who are there, because every step along the way, even when you had to say, No, you were really nice to them, you respected them, you know, and, you know, of course, you know, when you look at a new generation of consumers, you know, you can point in some cases to a different mindset, which is like, you know, they, you know, some people make the mistake of calling, you know, a younger generation millennials and Gen Zed disloyal. I dispute that, you know, I dispute that I think that’s a lot of, you know, Boomers and Gen Xers looking at the youth of today saying, why can’t you be more loyal? They have choice, right. And when you have choice, you don’t have to stick to an experience that doesn’t fit meet your knees. It’s not that they’re disloyal, it’s that if I don’t like this, then I’m gonna go over here. And by the way, to unravel a banking relationship, which is basically a deposit account and a credit card is not that hard to do. Now you look at a more mature, you know, banking client, who might have investments, mortgage, a couple of credit cards, several bank accounts, joint accounts, and things like that. That’s a pretty intertwined relationship. So now you’ve got to look at that franchise and go, What do I have here? Do I have hostages? Or do I have fans? So a lot of a lot of brands, including ours, on a very regular basis, measure whether their clients are satisfied or promoters. And if you’re a great brand, you make sure you dig into things like what are they complaining about? Or which part of this experience really sucks? And what can I fix? And the good ones just make that big list of things and they start chipping away? Hey, guess what? You know, for example, it could be a service gesture that is very be rigid? And you’d say, well, no, you don’t qualify for this credit, goodbye. So you could say it that way. Or you could say, let’s work on a plan to get to where you want to get to, if not today, in the future, those are two different service gestures. What are people complaining about? So sometimes many of the things people complain about in banking, our fees. So what are you going to do about it? Are you going to help people understand the fee better, because that’s often a great way to eliminate complaints about fees is sometimes people we’ve seen in our research, people will pay a fee, if they know they’re getting value back. But if they don’t understand the value, and they get, they incur a fee, they ask questions. Maybe in other cases, people will complain about, you know, wait times, on a on a, you know, on a call center? Well, do you have a message on the IVR, that provides enough information for somebody that they can actually self select a solution, or understand why they’re why they’re on hold. So I think, you know, when it comes to brand loyalty, it’s, it’s not big, grand gestures, it’s small gestures, it’s those little daily things that you do to make them fans, I tell I use this analogy all the time. Brand relationships are like human relationships, you don’t make friends that you don’t build relationships with other people, because they did one wild thing to you, or they incentivize you to your best relationships, I’m certain are ones where those daily little moments of truth are always fulfilled. With are the most fulfilling things for you and that person you engage with, it’s no different from brands, in fact, relationships are built in the same way.
Cher (00:31:50)
I never really thought about it that way. Actually, I’ve never really thought about a brand messaging being akin to an actual human to human relationship. Oftentimes, brands are, are seen as over there, or they’re seen as sort of this entity as opposed to almost like a person, which when you think about it, and messaging, and and is really just coming from, you know, a bank is kind of like someone speaking to you as a person. But I guess what that then makes me wonder is, you know, with the different generations, the delivery of that message, is very different. Because you see, sort of the older generation, you know, there’s an idea anyways, that the older generation wants to continue with retail banking, they want to be in store, they want to go see someone face to face, they want to have someone to talk to, and then the younger generation, may or may not want that. And but they may or may want other options at home. So you know, and that’s, that’s totally fair, because that’s, you know, the world is very different from how younger generations are growing up versus what, you know, older generations have experienced. And so when when you take all that into account, how does your messaging the delivery of your messaging change? Is that is that in? Is that something that’s significantly thought about? When you are sort of talking to these different age groups of people in different mindsets of people?
Rob (00:33:15)
Yeah, you know, it’s funny, I think mindset is more important than age in certain circumstances. One enduring truth, one enduring truth. Sort of a, that, I would say, transcends generations is everybody wants on in person, human touch, everybody does. Everyone wants a tactile experience in retail, to some, to some extent, it’s why Amazon opened up physical stores, because they recognize that, you know, it doesn’t matter. If you’re 75, or 25, everyone wants a human experience. Now, younger generation, still intends to and wants to walk into banking centers, but they want to do so for different reasons. They want to do so so that an expert can help them just kind of unpack, how to think about their lives and their financials and things like that. So that’s why they that’s why they want to visit and they want an in person experience. So we’ve seen that older people want to go in because they’re creatures of habit, in some cases, I’ll point to my mom who, you know, I’ve tried to get enrolled into digital banking. But you know, as a as an immigrant Greek woman who never grew up with technology. She’s never been comfortable with it. Right? And for her having a piece of paper is what what she wants. Now, at the same time, she also has an iPad and goes on Facebook and does those other things, but for certain things, habit has kind of taken taken root, so to speak. So it’s just what it does. It’s not necessarily bound to age because there are a lot of older Canadians who feel that I don’t really need to go to a banking center to pay a bill, I can do this off my phone. So I would we try to follow the mindset more than we try to follow necessarily the sort of birth certificate and, and adjust, you know, adjust our business model to meet those needs in that way.
Cher (00:35:18)
And what’s interesting, I think about what you said is that, you know, your mom, right, she, I’m sure that there was a point in time, and I know this with my parents as well, at a point in time, the idea that they could log on to, you know, their Facebook account and use whatsapp and all these different technology tools from their iPad, or, or whatever the case their tablet in bed and do these things or pay a bill online or do an E transfer that was incredibly foreign to them, while it was maybe something that was seemed sort of a natural progression in younger people’s lives. But but they have adopted that, and a lot of people have sort of taken that on. As technology changes, though, you know, the usage of it changes and the adoption of it, the rate of adoption between these generations is also going to change. And, you know, how does a How does a bank sort of stay ahead of that curve and start to predict and forecast sort of, this is the new wave, this is what you know, is about to happen, and we need to sort of get ahead of it. Like, for example, tick tock, people have been talking about tick tock for a very long time, before tick tock became incredibly, you know, this massive behemoth that it is now, and it could have been in part because of, you know, COVID-19, and everybody staying at home and looking for entertainment, and whatever the reasons may be, it has sort of picked up steam, you know, within younger generation, and then again, older generation very, very quickly. So how does, you know, how does a bank really stay ahead of these changes in the way different generations are going to be adopting new forms of technology and new forms and ways that they think about banking?
Rob (00:36:58)
Yeah, it’s simply by building your bank and building your service around consumer needs. Digital adoption, spiked up big time during the COVID crisis. Why? Because my banking center is currently closed. And it’s too far for me to go to another banking center. I’m applying for a government benefit, which if I am enrolled in digital banking, I can receive my money in three business days. So you think about the extent of this crisis, the need to get access to your money more quickly. All of a sudden, this technology was fit for purpose for a need that emerged. So it’s really difficult. Not impossible, but difficult to predict how needs will change. Because if you’re wrong, you start building technology for needs that don’t exist. So, you know, I remember launching a product, it was called. I’m not sure if I can talk about this. I’ll try to be cryptic about it. Okay. I remember, I remember launching a product that was a fabric care product, right that we thought it would help you. It would help you eliminate ironing. So if you ask somebody, Hey, do you like ironing clothes? No. Okay, well, here’s something that will help you not have to iron clothes. Great. I love it in concept. And then you go and you put it out there and all of a sudden, while you have to kind of still manipulate the garment. You got to tug it and smooth it with your hands. Now your hands are wet. Well, I know I don’t like ironing, but I know I don’t like this. So let’s say for argument’s sake, someone says, Hey, wouldn’t it be great if we built a tic tock video into our banking application? Because people like Tic tock and that’s an emerging need and people need to be entertained, okay, so you invest in that. And it turns out, it’s a bad idea. It ruins the experience. You’re talking about something like tick tock. It’s not about tick tock. It’s like people like to be entertained, right. And people like people like to people used to like telling jokes. It would take you know, 20 seconds to tell a joke and make someone laugh, but like no one tells jokes anymore. Yes, they do. They make tick tock videos or, or they write tweets. People always tell jokes. I mean, follow anyone clever on on Twitter, people are telling jokes all the time, and arguably way more than they used to. So it’s just that technology is now filled that need in a different way. So to me, I think it’s staying in touch with needs, I don’t believe people’s needs. They’re really most basic needs change. How we fulfill those needs, though, can change. So the ingenuity of technology recognizes, hey, you know, people, people need to laugh. Well, here’s an interesting, neat new way to make them laugh. I’m going to put a filter over this picture that makes you look like a dog I’m going to give you an opportunity to send your face to somebody else, dog face. I used to dress up and do that physically, people used to put on wigs and masks and stuff. And now you could do that with technology. So I believe that technology needs to meet people’s needs. And people who are great at it understand what people want. We talked about Apple and Android in the 90s, personal computing was about a choice between an IBM Windows machine or an Apple iMac. And, you know, like Apple personal computers were in the low single digits in terms of market share, because people believed, you know, computing is serious business. And these aren’t toys, right? Apple believes that computing should improve people’s lives, and they should enjoy their life, through personal computing, look at look at what, what emerged as the most as the most true of those two ideologies today.
Cher (00:41:03)
We’re when we’re talking about sort of these enduring brand values, or enduring values, human values that we have, you know, like, the telling of the jokes, and, and how technology has just changed the way in which we do those things. You know, what are some of the enduring values people hold about their, their banks? Because I feel like right now, there’s risk is is a major word, you know, amongst the words like vector and prices and unprecedented risk is a huge sort of topic that everyone is talking about. And a lot of brands and advertisers aren’t afraid to take different risks, especially right now. But generally speaking, you know, matching those risks of a product or a shift in brand messaging to sort of align with consumer values and what they value in banking. You know, how does a bank really go about truly understanding the nuances, the deepness of, of how consumers value their banks, and what they’re valuing about their banking experience?
Rob (00:42:10)
A whole bunch of different ways. I think, we’re always collecting data on how our clients feel about us. risk in a bank is interesting, because risk is what underpins a bank’s strength, right? You lend money to people, are they likely to pay it back? You know, so, banks, banks are very, when it comes to risk? I think what banks do is they take risks by lending money, what people want is they want banks to take, take a risk on them, because they believe in themselves. And so now, I suppose in the past, that used to be quite a binary relationship. You know, if you don’t pay back I foreclose. Today, we have so many ways to determine, you know, how much risk can I take on a on you as a client. So for example, if you say I want $100,000 credit card limit, a bank would say, you know, based on what we think we know what someone like you, you may want to start with something like this. And you, you come to a mutual agreement, in a very friendly way on how much risk you’re going to take on a client. People expect banks to be reliable. People expect, if they want, if they have to pay their rent on a Friday, the same day, they got paid their paycheck, they expect the bank to receive that paycheck, and to release those dollars, so they can pay their landlord, they expect that if for any reason, they can’t, because the bank hours at the branch are too restrictive, or God forbid, your technology fails them, and they can’t eat transfer their landlord this month rent, that is a huge source of frustration for people. So you have to be reliable. The other thing people expect from their banks is they beliefs. They believe that when they entrust their lives and their money with a bank, they believe banks should be grateful for their business. And the banks that are grateful for their business are the ones that create better relationships with them. It can be very easy to get into a transactional mode, right? Deposits come in, the payments go out, you know, you borrow the money, you pay it back transaction transaction transaction, where you keep customers is in those moments in between. And so every bank has a mortgage. Every bank has rules. Every bank has a deposit account. Every bank has the same stuff. But not every bank serves people the same way all the time. And the bank that figures out and takes massive complex business, all of its touchpoints human and technological and makes them line up so perfectly. That this experience CES consistently great. Well, when I’ll point to Apple again, whether it’s interacting with them online, you can get them on the phone to actually talk you through your tack. Or you can go to one of their stores, it’s the same brand. It’s the same personality, it’s the same thing. They have been able to stitch straight through the line. The virtually the same experience, and it’s not about the look, yes, they look the same. Okay, that’s, that’s important. And it’s, it helps with the whole experience, but it feels the same. Okay. It’s why McDonald’s is a great brand, by a quarter pounder in Kitchener, Ontario, or in Paris, France, although I think it’s called The Royale with cheese there, according to the pulp fiction. Dialogue between Travolta and Samuel L. Jackson. But it’s, it’s the same thing. Right? That’s what, and it’s good.
Cher (00:45:58)
So when you’re talking about, like, for instance, in the Canadian market recently, we’ve seen, you know, the, the sort of prominence of Challenger banking, which is, you know, as we had spoken before, its banking, its banking, but delivered differently. So, when you’re talking about sort of a brand personality, that brand relationship, oftentimes with technology, and and exclusively our relationship with technology can sometimes seems very transactional. It’s very, you know, this is what I do here. This is what you provide me through, you know, this tool, how in the world of challenging challenger banking, where it’s mobile app, only banking, how does a brand sort of keep their their values, keep their sort of relationship and, and build that personality? And I guess, where does digital and marketing sort of mixing into that?
Rob (00:46:50)
Well, I mean, they digital and marketing, they deliver the service. So challenger banks, they deliver a service that’s fit for purpose, for their customer base. So you look at brands, like, you know, tangerine, and simply financial, wealth, simple. You know, in some of these others, like EQ Bank, they deliver a fit for purpose, you know, service for, for their customers. What’s interesting is, again, it’s not binary, there are a lot of people who are both simply financial clients and CIBC clients. Because they, they served, they serve different purposes. You know, in some of these smaller challenger banks, it’s often you know, you’ll get a mix of people who use it as their regular daily bank. And you’ll also get a bunch of fairly cash rich, affluent people parking big cash, because the interest rates are pretty good there. But they also have perhaps wealth management relationships with other big institutions. So what these things are doing is, as it is, as it is, in any category, you look around on the marketplace today, they’re getting in, they’re able to distribute a service very quickly, in some cases for for, you know, for customers who are saying, This is my only bank. And other cases for people we’re seeing, yeah, this will, this will be one of my circle of brands that I choose to consume a long time ago, I mean, you only had a few choices for breakfast cereal, or beer, or a certain few choices for automobiles. So these challenger banks are doing nothing, nothing different than what many other categories have experienced, which is other brands come in and meet other needs. And people bring them into their circle. So marketing and digital, you know, they they play a role, because you can get to market really quickly. Now, as a challenger, particularly in banking with the digital universe, you don’t have to build expensive bricks and mortar. But, you know, the question I have about them is what is their upside, because eventually, to grow, you need to proliferate your offering. And then you start to look a little bit more like the big banks beside you.
Cher (00:49:03)
I guess, sort of, you know, to kind of wrap this up, what, what does the future then? Because, you know, you had mentioned that, you know, as things develop and change, they need to proliferate their offerings. So what does the future of banking, with technology, with the marketing mix with the data that we’re we have now have access to, what does that look like, in the next five years?
Rob (00:49:26)
Great question. I think, you know, I talked about how people really want a personal interaction. I believe, we’re going to find and develop technology that gives you both service at a distance and a human interaction. You know, today, you know, we were one of the first in Canada I’m going to brag with CIBC to to launch a remote mortgage origination process so you can get your mortgage remotely entirely. I mean, And that was, and we really accelerated that to market and we got it there, it became very useful for people who needed to really close their mortgage, buy their homes urgently, at a time like the COVID crisis, rather than having to go in and, you know, fuss with papers that are banking center and things like that. So that personal interaction was still there. But you could do it at a distance. Obviously, the whole big, there’s so many memes about zoom calls and things like that today, right? Think about how zoom, which was kind of a create all these awkward sort of conference call moments became how people socialize. And so sometimes you get you accelerate into these new norms through these little crises. And it’s, it’s sometimes takes either the advent of an exceptional technology, or an outstanding circumstance to accelerate people into a new way of being because people are stubbornly creatures of habit, why would I do this trinket if I don’t have to? Well, now I have to now have done it. Well, now I kind of like it. So it’s going to become part of my habit. You know, it’s one of two things, either the environment changes, and technology is going to have a challenge to go and meet the needs of the environment. Or, as what happens with so many of these great disruptors in our world, somebody is going to have a vision, and they’re going to build something, and they’re going to say, this is a better way to do things. And they’re going to work that into through to the marketplace, that way, the bank, you will have to change. And we’ll have to continue to provide service, you know, in multiple different ways. But I think the biggest thing that can accelerate the next, the biggest innovation that banks could and should come up with is how to leverage technology to enhance the relationship building and interpersonal interactions that I described earlier. That are those daily, brilliant moments that build relationships between the bank and it’s quiet.
Cher (00:52:07)
Wow. Well, this has been incredibly enlightening for myself and inspiring, actually. So I just, you know, want to thank you so much for your time. I think this has been incredibly informative. And, you know, I really, really appreciate you taking your time to jump on our podcast here.
Rob (00:52:27)
Yeah, well, thanks for listening to my babble.
Cher (00:52:30)
No babble at all. It was amazing. I’m really, really happy to sort of hear some of the human elements of banking. I thought that was a that was something I don’t think a lot of brands are thinking about as much anymore, but it was great to hear.
Rob (00:52:43)
Yeah, well, thank you. Thanks for Hope you have a good day.
Episode Outro (00:52:47)
Thank you very much for tuning into this episode today. If you like what you heard, it would mean the world to us. If you do these three things. Subscribe to the show and leave us a review. If you’re listening to this and know someone who would find this episode valuable. Please share it with them. And finally, please share it on LinkedIn.If you have questions or feedback, if you’d love to learn how agencies or brands work with StackAdapt, find us at www.stackadapt.com Thanks for listening, and I’ll see you next time.
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