S2
Episode 3
Strategies to Succeed in B2B Digital Marketing
About This Episode
We look at why B2B marketers are shifting their focus to digital strategies, like demand generation, and account-based marketing.
Rob Bridgens | Head of Paid Search & Affiliate Marketing, Reflect Digital
Brandon Langevin | Senior Sales Director, StackAdapt
Transcript
Episode Introduction (00:00:00)
Is hugely significant and I don’t see us ever going back to the way it was. I mean, face-to-face is never going away. And you know, it will be a preferable way of dealing with people. But what this last 18 months has given us is the opportunity to actually demonstrate what is possible without these traditional conferences.
How Agencies Thrive Introduction (00:00:25)
Curious to know what industry-leading marketers are looking to achieve and the ever-evolving digital landscape that how agencies Thrive podcast by StackAdapt is dedicated to helping the new breed of forward-thinking savvy, lean and mean marketers win and the rapidly evolving digital landscape time to thrive.
Matt (00:00:53)
Without conferences and business travel happening in the last 18 months, B2B marketers have had to shift their focus to other strategies like demand generation and Account-Based Marketing. In this episode, we’re joined by Rob Bridges from Reflect Digital, and Brandon Langevin, from StackAdapt to discuss how B2B has embraced digital marketing tactics, and how marketers can thrive in this new landscape. Now, I really liked this episode, because it’s interesting to see not only how significant the pandemic has been in transforming this vertical, but how certain unprecedented roadblocks lead the entire industry to innovate and develop new solutions that will benefit digital marketing for years to come. As always, thank you for tuning in and enjoy this episode of The How Agencies Thrive podcast. Everyone, welcome to today’s episode. My name is Matt Evered. I’m the host of the How Agencies Thrive podcast. And I’m also the Education and Development Manager at StackAdapt. Today, I’m joined by Rob Bridgens, the head of paid media at Reflect Digital and Brandon Langevin, a Sales Director at StackAdapt. As a tradition with every episode of the podcast, I’d love to hear a little bit about each of our guests before jumping into the questions. So starting with you, Rob, why don’t you tell us a little bit about Reflect Digital, what you do as head of paid media, how long you’ve been in the industry and what you consider to be your strongest area of expertise?
Rob (00:02:17)
Yeah, great. Well, thank you very much for having me on the podcast. So yeah, I’m the head of paid media at Reflect Digital. We are an agency that specializes in digital advertising, digital marketing. So I head up, obviously, the paid side of things, but we also have a specialist team on the organic side. Our sort of area of specialism is really looking at applying psychology and human behavior to marketing. I’ve been in the industry myself for about 11 years. I’ve been with Reflect Digital for almost six of those. And personally, my area of specialism is within PPC search, specifically, sort of Google and Microsoft, and the use of remarketing within the display space.
Matt (00:03:14)
Perfect. Thanks, Rob. Well, we’re very happy to have you on the episode. Brandon, I’ll pass it over to you tell us a little bit about yourself.
Brandon (00:03:21)
Thanks, Matt. And thanks, Rob. My name is Brandon Langevin. And I’m a Sales Director at StackAdapt. And I’ve been here for about four and a half years now and have gone through a number of roles within the organization from when we were, you know, really small niche DSP of about 35 people all the way to where we are now. And in my current role, I would say it’s split pretty evenly across a variety of responsibilities. But a major part of it is helping with media strategy and execution across some of our key accounts, with a wide variety of verticals. That being said, StackAdapt, myself and the broader team have had a lot of exposure to running B2B campaigns within the digital media world. And it’s been an interesting, almost two years now of seeing how to address to more of a digital-first and remote marketing plan for B2B organizations. And I’m excited to chat a little bit more about it today.
Matt (00:04:22)
So as mentioned, in this episode, we’re talking about all things B2B. So that includes how the shift to remote work has impacted marketing efforts, tactics that have been successful over the last year, trends and Account Based Marketing and overall what the future looks like, for this vertical. So to kick things off, I want to ask both of you at the beginning of the pandemic. So Brandon, as you mentioned, it’s almost been two years. How did you think the shift to working remotely would impact B2B marketing?
Brandon (00:04:53)
So I think, you know, right away, there was a lot of uncertainty about know what the future of our industry would look like, especially in the early weeks and months of adjusting to, you know, a new working life with with COVID-19. But some of the immediate indications that our marketing strategies and programmatic execution would change within the B2B space was that first of all, there’s no longer going to be any in-person conferences, obviously, a big part of a lot of strategies is geofencing, and creating audience based tech, and segments for conferences and people attending different events and targeting them afterwards. So right away, we were seeing, you know, a big loss of qualified users to then activate within a broader space after the fact, I think that was definitely an adjustment for not just us, but everybody within the B2B space that we would work with. And then secondly, with everybody working in an online capacity, and no longer having the ability to meet people in person, or get to know people over conferences and live presentations, obviously, our strategy when executing B2B campaigns had to adjust as well with being able to more accurately identify the right users for a variety of B2B campaigns and engage with them entirely remotely, without any, you know, peer to peer human interaction. So it took a little while for, you know, the industry as a whole to catch up to that. But I would say, as of now, we’re in a pretty good place.
Rob (00:06:29)
I would echo that last sentiment there. Like, at the beginning, we believed it was going to have a terrible impact. A lot of our clients at the time, obviously, they had no idea of what to expect. So they were contacting us to ask for pauses on contracts. And, you know, just until the dust settled, and, you know, that was something that we, you know, we granted to everyone that asked for it. Because, you know, we want to support people for the long term, and thankfully only took a month or two to really kind of see where the shift was going to be. And I think the flexibility that we gave to clients at their beginning point really, really helped us in the long term. Because once the dust had settled, it was really clear that there was going to be lots of pots of budget opening up that were previously earmarked for those impersonal events, like you were just saying, and, suddenly, we had clients coming back, who were looking to test new things that they wouldn’t have ever done before, because that money would have been pegged away. And more importantly, where, if face-to-face meetings were difficult to organize, we were actually winning new business, off of word of mouth, based on, like, the good relationships that we had, we had fostered by giving that flexibility at the beginning. So whilst at the very beginning, we thought it was going to be doom and gloom, we ended up with, you know, it’s been our best eating months ever, you know, we had quarter after quarter of, of best earnings, we’ve won awards for clients. So it’s actually turned out to be one of the best things that happened for us as an agency, as horrible as it is to say that that came out of, you know, a global pandemic. But yeah, I think a lot of lot of companies have tried new, new B2B strategies that they never would have done.
Matt (00:08:32)
That’s interesting that both of you say that there is this big shift from having that face to face time with clients. Because I know for a lot of businesses that are operating in the B2B space, that’s really important, especially when you’re building those early relationships or, you know, meeting people at conferences or trade shows or things like that. So I’m interested to know in terms of tactics that you either use within your agency for observed in the industry, you know, what did you see that was really successful, and what were some things that were tried that didn’t necessarily work out and that you learned from.
Rob (00:09:12)
There were obviously a lot of new things being tried. And some of that was not necessarily new to us as an agency but for our clients, them suddenly having that sort of budget financial flexibility for us to actually carry out discovery research. Because everyone you know, wants to have everything all their all their ducks in a row before you start any campaign, but that is not always a luxury that you have. But yeah, we were able to, to work with clients really take a sort of zoom out and look at things in a holistic way. Look at the whole marketing mix, and then identify, you know, which channels were actually working in which we should move with how we can make those both paid and organic. Excited things work together better. And as I said in the intro, one thing that we really try and work on as an agency group is we focus on psychology and, and human behavior. But importantly, we actually focus on the humans that we’re marketing to, rather than seeing them as just conversions. So really having that chance to look at who the customer is, where they can be found, and how we can link the client to it. And, you know, we were able to spend time and money doing actual customer research, you know, doing surveys speaking to real people, and putting together, you know, strategies that wouldn’t have been possible before the pandemic because that time and, and budget wasn’t available. You know, all of that kind of stuff is, you know, people listen to this listening to this might think that’s just normal activity. But yeah, it’s having that luxury to be able to actually sit down and put out a real, decent strategy. The other thing we found was with everyone moving online, outside of the grip of their business IT departments is they’re able to use Facebook and other social media platforms a lot more. So suddenly, we had a whole new audience of people that we could target across these other channels. And by combining social and display retargeting, we were able to really kind of make sure we had a good presence across that whole messy middle. And, you know, the upshot was, in almost all cases, increases in conversions. As far as things that necessarily didn’t work. I, this sounds like rubbish, but I can’t think of one off the top of my head there had a that didn’t work perfectly well. I don’t know if I’m passive. Do you, Brandon? And I’ll have a think.
Brandon (00:11:58)
Yeah, no, I think you made a bunch of great points there. And two things, myself and StackAdapt as a whole could probably relate to really well, especially in the past year and a half is, number one, finding a good balance between paid and organic media in the B2B space is always a challenge. Because marketing for a B2B product, let’s say it’s a payroll product targeting a payroll manager is very different than targeting a consumer for the latest gaming console device. I think they’re, you know, apples and watermelons from a comparison standpoint. And I think the second thing that really resonates from what you said is taking a step back and looking at who we’re targeting as people instead of conversions and leads is especially important, because above marketing for a product, you’re targeting real people, and you have to get more insight into who they are beyond just their role, what’s the best way to reach them and actively communicate, you know, the benefits of the software, or the product you’re trying to market to a person who’s live is probably at the beginning of COVID, just as flipped upside down as yours were, most of us were adjusting from working in the office every day to work in completely remotely with a very different environment and in the workplace setting. But I think we, we found a lot of a lot of different things that worked really well for us. One thing that I could say off the top of my head that maybe didn’t work so well, as we found when we were reintroducing programmatic channels to a variety of B2B clients. If we were to compare, you know, different media channels, apples to apples. So let’s say we’re talking about programmatic display in more of an upper funnel, prospecting capacity versus very bottom-funnel search, which sounds like you, you know, very well, the performance is often going to be very different. And we found that anytime we were being compared apples to apples to a much lower funnel strategy as a whole, it didn’t tend to shine very well on programmatic as a whole compared to what you could see in an isolated fashion, just reading search, but being able to change that narrative a bit and show how programmatic social and search could all work together to identify you know, users that would benefit from whatever B2B product or solution you’re selling. And moving them through that conversion journey using more top-of-funnel channels like even CTV video and programmatic display, nurturing them, exposing them to really relevant content and then retargeting that user on social search LinkedIn, whatever it is, we saw that, you know, the injection of programmatic into a much larger media strategy tend to work really well. But I think gone are the days where you can show a payroll manager one display banner and expect them to click through and sign sign up for a very expensive product. And it takes a lot more nurturing and lead time for a marketing team to do that effectively. And it’s something we we went through a lot of education with with a lot of our clients. And that, you know, you can’t just rely on on programmatic media on its own, and you can’t just rely on search in social on its own. And it’s, it’s the combination of all channels working together, that really helps move the needle when it comes to, you know, B2B lead gen in an online environment.
Rob (00:15:34)
Yeah, it’s interesting that you say that, because when it comes to the remarketing side, that both Google run and programmatic run, we did see that, you know, campaigns and strategies that were Joe running along very well before the pandemic, or across the board for a lot of clients dropped in in conversion rate, you know, cost per acquisition rose. And we did, you know, have to change tack, and the campaigns that weren’t successful was where we introduced more touch points across more channels. And I think it is, you know, people were just doing more, they were spending more time considering their purchase. And as you say, gone are the days where someone will see one remarketing ad and then be tipped over the edge, you’ve really got to keep working with them to identify what their pain points are, and show your your product or services is the one for them. But yeah, that happened across a lot of our a lot of our clients.
Matt (00:16:38)
Rob, I wanted to jump back to a point that you made earlier, you were talking about this idea of observing the psychology of customers, when you were building ads, during the beginning of the pandemic was, you know, the idea of being empathetic and careful about your messaging was that something that was top of mind when you were building out your campaigns?
Rob (00:17:00)
Absolutely. And obviously, with all of the restrictions, you can’t directly, you know, address, you know, COVID, or the pandemic in your ads, but you can, you know, be empathetic, as you say, in your tone of voice in the way that you’re approaching people. So, you know, with our, with our strategies, we, you know, we use a number of different tools to base our work on. So we do some bits with like fire o theory and ocean. But ultimately, it boils down to, when we’re creating ads we create, we test against three different user drivers. And so not everyone is approaching a product or a service for the same reason. And everyone has different contextual, rational or emotional reasons for why they would want to buy something. But we did definitely see that the emotional ads, like took a front front seat there. And the ones where people are talking about sort of safety, a feeling of being part of a community trust, those kinds of messages, definitely had a bigger impact after the pandemic struck than they had ever done before. Prior to that, you know, we would have said, although there was an even mixed, but people who are more rational, you know, in their purchases, they want to know, facts and figures, costs, you know, reviews and things like that, that that dropped a bit. And so we will definitely, yeah, those empathetic emotional messages were where we saw a lot of focus.
Matt (00:18:51)
Absolutely. So before we head off to our break, I have another question that I wanted to ask both of you. And I mentioned this to you before we hopped on the episode, but there was a survey that he marketer put out, and they found that 74% of individuals believe that Account Based Marketing has now become this really critical part of a marketing mix for B2B. So I’d like to know how significant do you think that ABM is as we head into the coming months, and why so things like capturing your ideal customer profile, maintaining ROI, things like that? How valuable is ABM in the future of B2B marketing?
Rob (00:19:35)
I think it’s incredibly important, you know, those customer profiles, you know, allow a marketing team and a sales team to really kind of coordinate and make sure everyone is driving towards the same goal. And you’re able to tailor those those ad messages to the kinds of business that you want and it does ultimately drive a higher ROI. The thing that we’ve seen with ABM though is, you can’t forget the wider, more generic advertising. You know, like, you can have those really tailored focused ads. But if you’re not visible in that marketplace elsewhere, then the effectiveness is, is a little bit weaker. And the other thing is, you know, if you don’t have the time to really get out there and do proper research with the actual customers, sometimes what your client thinks is their target audience. It is, we have had some clients who have been very surprised by, you know, at the end of the campaign, like the people who are actually buying their product, or not the ones that they fought with the demographic that were there after. And, and so if you go full bore into account-based Marketing, you can miss that opportunity. And like I said earlier, the thing that really worked well, within the pandemic was having that time to actually do that research, which potentially that budget might not have been available for before. But yeah, it’s not going away. And it’s going to be a really big part of the mix going forward.
Brandon (00:21:12)
Yeah, and I mean, Further to that, and Matt, not to put you on the spot. But even looking at stack apps, internal marketing, we’re obviously very focused in the B2B space for when we’re looking to generate leads, and new customers. And I think, based on everything we’ve talked about, and we’ve seen, ABM continues to be a really important part of the StackAdapt strategy, where we’re fairly familiar with our standard media buying profiles and where StackAdapt has been built to best serve, agencies and brands needs. But that being said, you know, even looking at the release of our commercial in June, which was just an awesome splash and our rebrand that wasn’t just ABM targeting, it definitely was a broader, broader push to make sure that we’re out there because, you know, we don’t, we don’t always know who’s going to be using StackAdapt, outside of our very defined audience profile. And working with the common combination of the two is has always been a pretty important part of StackAdapt internal marketing strategy, and shifting focus and looking a little bit to, you know, the customers we work with, ABM when we are working in the B2B space is always an important part of our recommendation, but not the only one where, you know, if if we are going to be leveraging an ABM portion of our campaign, we would probably look to an awesome audience provider like Dun and Bradstreet, who works really well in the space, or even working with Bombora and their search products to identify the most relevant people possible, you know, engaging with relevant content online. But as we move forward to more of a cookieless and IDFA. media world, it’s important that we’re still honing in on ABM strategies, as best we could, as a strong complement to a broader marketing message were similar to different channels, working with the two in tandem, in our experience often yields the most positive results.
Matt (00:23:12)
Brandon, that’s interesting that you mentioned that because that’s something that especially within our marketing organization, and StackAdapt, you think about constantly is how can we provide the most relevant information to the people that we’re marketing to? And how can we get them excited about the product? And how can we give them ideas and have higher level conversations. And I think for a lot of B2B marketers, that’s really what they’re looking for is to get potential users or potential customers excited about the product and that comes through providing things that are very relevant to them. So with that in mind, I think what what we can do, and Brandon, you mentioned IDFA, we will be talking about that after the break. So we’ll take a quick break. And when we come back, we’ll talk about the future of B2B marketing and some key insights that marketers can use going forwards.
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Matt (00:24:42)
Welcome back, everybody. As mentioned at the beginning of the episode, we’re joined by Rob from Reflect Digital and Brandon from StackAdapt. For this half of the episode, let’s talk about some trends in B2B. And before we headed to the break, Brandon, you mentioned IDFA. So the identifier for advertisers, and on the heels of this, there’s been a lot of speculation about this notion of an identity crisis for B2B marketers. So with everybody being very particular about how users are tracked, and publishers need to be more transparent about how user data is collected and used, how do you think this impacts the stages of the advertising cycle from planning, buying optimization and reporting?
Rob (00:25:28)
From my side, it’s the whole IDFA situation has been, it has been hugely disruptive. And obviously, it’s impacted a lot of our data acquisition. And, you know, the things that we assumed and planned before it happened, you know, went out the window. So, things that we enjoyed, like how the very detailed look alike audiences and, and the ability of the Facebook algorithm to make very good choices for us on bidding for 50% of the market with the Apple devices going just going away. It, it did, yeah, it did have a big problem. But, you know, without wanting to sound like a shill. That is, that is why we actually, you know, approached and started working with you guys at StackAdapt. Because we were able to, you know, see the opportunity with the tools that you had. So the ability to use the pixel to tag all of the programmatic display. And we were using that to basically supercharge our, our user lists and, and filled them with, with more users that we could use, you know, the full Facebook suite of tools for obviously, it made no change on the Apple users, but it meant we could fill that audience list with more Google devices. And we’ve seen a big uplift in performance since it does mean that yeah, all of the reporting and, and things need to be you have a massive asterix on it, whenever we’re talking to clients now, which is, you know, it gets a little bit tiring sometimes, you know, having to explain that every time. But, you know, we are back to seeing good performance through through Facebook. And ultimately, you know, we work in a world where, you know, entities such as Apple, Google, Facebook can make a change at a whim. And we are completely out of control of that. And you know, that won’t change. And it’s been there in the past and icon and organic side, all of the different algorithmic changes from Google. And it’s just about being adaptable, and you know, not being too stuck in one way of working. So, you know, it breathes a, you know, a breath of fresh air into, into the, into the strategies if we look at it that way. And, you know, we always like looking for new opportunities.
Brandon (00:28:03)
I think when we try to look at the adjustments and changes that come within the industry as a whole from some of the major players like Google, or Apple, or even Facebook, in some instances, it’s as marketers that work in the digital media space, sometimes it’s hard to take a step back and understand why the changes are in place. And it’s important to put your consumer hat on and understand why, you know, a decision, like Apple’s, is being made to enhance, you know, their user base and trust in their privacy, while at the same time balancing, you know, what we do for a living, which is selling programmatic media strategies to improve performance for a variety of marketers we’re working with, it’s really hard to be kind of stuck in the middle of work, we’re consumers too. But we need to find ways to, you know, enhance our performance when you do get delta crutch like IDFA 2.0, or Google’s announcement that cookies are going to be going away, even though they pushed it back a year that’s still coming. So as I can, I can speak more specifically to stack it up as a platform. And we’ve been able to pivot fairly strongly to using more in-house audience solutions that don’t rely on user identifiers that will be or already have gone away in the long term has allowed us to continue to excel in the targeting space within the industry as a whole. But having to adjust sometimes very quickly, is obviously a hand that not everybody can work with on such a whim. And I think it entails a lot of trying to look into the future to assume what’s next. We’re at StackAdapt Very We’re very comfortable with where audience targeting and cross-device solutions are today. I think it’s about trying to identify what’s to come tomorrow, we already know cookies are going away. We already know, device privacy is going to continue to grow and enhance user privacy. And it’s how do we adapt and adjust to what, you know, the market is going to look like two years from now to continue being able to provide support and performance to partners like Rob and his agency where they still have mandates from their clients on, you know, lead volume, lead generation, all the way up to brand awareness, affinity and cross-device tracking. And, yeah, it’s been, it’s been an interesting ride so far. And I’m sure over the next couple of years, we’re going to see a lot more privacy implications come into play that impact how we’re structuring our campaigns. But I think overall, as an industry, it’s it’s still really exciting to see, you know, what, what these new regulations do in terms of innovation and product development. And if you want to look at it from a positive, it means that you know, technologies like ourselves, and agencies, can, you know, their homes like Rob, have to continue to adapt and innovate not only to survive but to excel in a space that’s consistently changing.
Rob (00:31:18)
I think one of the most important things you touched on there is, yeah, just acknowledging that it is better for consumers in the space. And it’s easy for us to get a chip on our shoulder as marketers, but we shouldn’t lose sight of, you know, the reason why I completely agree with what you said.
Matt (00:31:34)
Absolutely. And this puts us just about at our time for the episode, but I think the general consensus after speaking to both of you is that we can all agree that the way the whole B2B space is operating, and the way that businesses operate, going forward has changed significantly throughout the pandemic. And the key to success has been being adaptable, and also, you know, pivoting where you need to pivot. So, as we move away from this notion of the old normal and and we look forward into the latter portion of 2021, and even into 2022, with this, you know, remote first hybrid business world. How significant Do the two of you think the last 18 months have been? Do you think that as the world reopens, we’ll ever revert back to what pre-pandemic B2B marketing looked like? Where do you think things have changed forever?
Brandon (00:32:34)
I would, I would say, it’s extremely significant. I mean, it’s tough to speak to the B2B space as a whole, because every organization is different. But I think if anything, the past year and a half has really forced people like Rob, people like myself, and you know, broader tech as a whole to, like my previous point, innovate and identifying new and more efficient ways to, in the B2B space, generate lead volume, or generate awareness that maybe wasn’t being leveraged to its full capacity beforehand. And I know, a big part of of B2B as a whole, from our experience, has always been conferences and big in-person events. And we’re starting to see that come back a little bit. But I’m of the personal opinion that I don’t think it will ever reach the pre-pandemic levels of people on conference tours and event tours all across different regions on a week-to-week basis, I think, the past year and a half, if anything has shown us that, you know, in the B2B space, marketers can continue to execute on large and broad campaigns and innovate in a way that takes away from the requirement of being present at every conference, every massive event and still yield the same, if not better results as beforehand. And the other big piece over the past year and a half outside of just how you know, the change and workflow has impacted us as, as people that work at various organizations, it’s also come with a lot of new privacy laws like we just talked about that has also forced us to pivot. So I’d say the overall the past year and a half, almost two years, has not been insignificant in any capacity and has really changed and pivoted the way B2B marketers are executing their media, and I would say hopefully, hopefully, for the better.
Matt (00:34:24)
Rob, what are your thoughts?
Rob (00:34:23)
It’s hugely significant, and I don’t see us ever going back to the way it was. I mean, face-to-face is never going away. And you know, it will be a preferable way of dealing with people. But you know, what this last 18 months has given us is the opportunity to actually demonstrate what is possible without these traditional conferences, especially for more sort of like conservative industries like big corporates, getting a marketing or sales director to, you know, to not go to the conference that they’ve gone to every year for the last helping, you know, 1015 years, or whatever it may be, and say, you know, spend your money online, and you’ll probably see just as good performance that would never have happened. And, you know, we’ve had lots of industries have been able to demonstrate that, that isn’t, you know, the same for every industry. Obviously, it’s a very broad brush deep, but many have seen that happen. But even for things like conferences, like there’s, there’s things that are changing for them for the better as well, they still have the face to face version of it. But they have digital aspects where that is delivered to like now a wide global audience, who would never have had the opportunity to be involved before, everyone’s much happier being on a video call or digital presentation. Whereas I think 18 months ago, most people would have recalled the idea of being, you know, being seen on a video. And so I think there’s just lots of exciting opportunities moving forward that, you know, are now possible because of what’s been tested over these last 18 months.
Matt (00:36:06)
With that in mind, that pretty much puts us at time for the episode. So on behalf of myself, our listeners, Rob and Brandon, thank you so much for sharing your expertise on this episode, and to the B2B marketers that are tuned in. I hope you took away from this episode, and you took away as much as I did. So we’re really looking forward to seeing everyone succeed in their upcoming campaigns. So thank you, everybody.
Episode Outro (00:36:32)
Thank you very much for tuning into this episode today. If you like what you heard, it would mean the world to us. If you do these three things, subscribe to the show and leave us a review. If you’re listening to this and know someone who would find this episode valuable. Please share it with them. And finally, please share it on LinkedIn. If you have questions or feedback, we’d love to learn how agencies or brands work with StackAdapt, find us at www.stackadapt.com. Thanks for listening, and I’ll see you next time.
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