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Episode 11

Why Agile Ad Agencies are the Need of the Hour

Cover Art of How Agencies Thrive podcast

About This Episode

August 26, 2020

We discuss agencies’ reaction to the pandemic, how one needs to quickly adapt to market conditions, and changing consumer perceptions.

Ashley Shuey | Media Director, Allen & Gerritsen

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Transcript

Episode Introduction (00:00:00)

We saw a lot of brands that desire to stay silent, right and decided to wait it out and didn’t predict, you know, that this time would be different. This is you know, everybody keeps saying it’s a movement, not a moment. And so as an agency, we decided to speak out very boldly on social media supporting Black Lives Matter, you know, offering anti racist resources, educating on the social media boycott with Facebook. And you know, not only did we not get any pushback on this, but we got so much praise for it. You know, the New York Times reached out to us last week or the week before about, you know, our Facebook boycott imagery. The Philly ad club has reached out to us you guys have reached out to us so you know, brands that are scared or uncertain about how they should really be a part of this. I think our key takeaway here would be take a stand. Don’t be afraid to be bold and vocal and then you know, people are going to notice and it’s going to be nothing but nothing but positive.

How Agencies Thrive Introduction (00:01:00)

Curious to know what industry leading marketers are looking to achieve and the ever evolving digital landscape. The How Agencies Thrive podcast by StackAdapt is dedicated to helping the new breed of forward thinking savvy, lean and mean marketers win in the rapidly evolving digital landscape. Time to thrive.

Vitaly (00:01:28)

Hi, everyone. This is Vitaly Pecherskiy, co-founder of StackAdapt and the host of this podcast. We are approaching the end of our first season of how agencies Thrive podcast, and we only have two episodes left to share with you. In today’s episode, we spoke with Ashley Shuey and media director at Allen & Gerritsen. To learn more about how agencies can help brands pivot their messaging in the rapidly changing environment driven by global pandemic and social issues. What I liked about this episode is the conversation about diversity and inclusion, and the behind the scenes look at how Allen & Garretson agency thinks about DNI issues. Here’s the conversation with Ashley Shuey from Allen & Gerritsen.

Carly (00:02:10)

With current events, agencies have had to dress and pivot their clients strategies to adjust the new cycle. Today I’m talking to Ashley Shuey. Immediate director at Allen & Garritson. Ashley is a media expert and fun fact, she’s been the recipient of not one but two innovation awards in her career. Her quick thinking and analytical skills are only surmounted by her passion for the topic we’re discussing today. Ashley and the Allen & Gerritsen team have embraced change with open arms. They’ve committed themselves to inclusivity and diversity while leading a charge for how agencies should educate and ensure their clients quickly adapt to the new normal while navigating through these uncertain times. Ashley, thank you for joining me on the podcast today.

Ashley (00:02:51)

Thanks for having me, Carly.

Carly (00:02:54)

Always a pleasure. One thing I want to have to applaud you and your team on is how quickly you pivot messaging based on current events. When Coronavirus first hit as a tech partner, we saw several campaigns in a state of flux. But your team quickly swapped out creative messaging. Can you take me through how as both a media and creative agency you approach the discussion with your clients?

Ashley (00:03:18)

Yeah, of course. So obviously Coronavirus was top of mind both personally and professionally from the very beginning. I know I got no less than 800 emails from brands like explaining, you know how they were going to handle COVID. So like, if I got one more email from an airline, being like, Hey, we’re gonna wipe the seats, promise is probably going to explode. So we did make a point to do a lot of listening at first as a team and just make sure that, you know, we’re developing content that’s relevant and worthy of consumer consumption because it was really overwhelming. I don’t know if you felt that way. But um, the the information in flux was, was really crazy. So we didn’t, you know, we didn’t want to be generic. So we did, you know, dive in a little bit deeper and just recognize and understand where consumers were getting their information, what was making them feel overwhelmed versus what was really resonating with them and then kind of just go from there. So I think our clients really looked to us to help facilitate these actions and be proactive about it. So you know, staying in front of the situations we could be agile was really the key to our success in the COVID landscape.

Carly (00:04:32)

And like coming from like a personal background to like it does affect like overall from an emotional standpoint. It can be very overwhelming. So like to pivot the message based off of that, and kind of elaborating a little bit more on emotional based and sentiment based advertising. From a client standpoint, this can actually still be a relatively new topic to them. Given the current social climate as well. Is your team proactive with recommendations for creative change and media Your placement. And on that note, what has been the average client’s reaction?

Ashley (00:05:04)

Yeah. So I mean, we definitely have great partnerships with our clients. And being that, you know, we really sell ourselves as a fiercely independent business. Our clients are really not just businesses to us, they’re really, their success is our success. So the emotional based planning, I think, is super interesting. And it really just takes us to take a step back further and say, you know, how does our audience feel right now? How do they feel about certain mediums or publishers? When’s the right moment to connect with them as people? You know, for example, ABC 123 website has a million unique views a day. And normally under efficiency buying, we would say, you know, let’s buy the best CPM, let’s get the most impressions that we can for our dollars. But if a reader doesn’t trust the source, and then you’re aligning your brand with that source, you know, what’s that really accomplishing at the end of the day? And you’re also thinking about ad formats, right? So if the ad is disruptive, if the UX on the landing page is poor, those factors really weigh heavily on brand perception as well. So it’s just it’s been for us about remembering that there are actual people behind the pixels. And just focusing on their state of mind versus purely buying on mathematical efficiencies.

Carly (00:06:22)

That totally makes sense. And then in terms of like, the creative standpoint, like you mentioned, people are behind the data at the end of the day, when it comes to like creative changes, you probably have to be a little bit more agile in that regard when it comes to the current climate. In terms of like the recommendations for your clients. They’ve been receptive to that overall.

Ashley (00:06:45)

Yeah, 100%, I think that we’ve done a lot of decisions based on just testing, right. So we think we know based on our historical data, what images are going to work and what creative messaging is really going to resonate. And one thing that we did this year with Karen treatment centers was was test emotional based advertising, right. So like an attention grabbing piece versus like a nurturing piece versus whatever and then put those in the out in the environment and see, which would perform better with different audiences. And to our to our surprise, I would say, there were some astounding differences in the audience’s and the imagery, something as simple as changing out an image made a world of difference. So it’s been a really educational for us as well, to be agile.

Carly (00:07:32)

For sure. And then, to further on that point to like, you guys, were doing that. Even before I think Coronavirus happened, we were looking at more of an emotional base and sentiment based advertising for a creative standpoint. Yeah. So that’s great like to hear also to you guys pivoted and you’re like, Okay, well, we’re already doing this, but how can we make a simple change to then reach a user during this very overwhelming and scary time?

Ashley (00:08:02)

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, from format changes as well, from from platforms, right, like, we knew that there were a lot of changes with consumption, in general, and information sharing. So we did turn to a lot of native, we did a lot of social knowing that a lot of people do get their views, as scary as that might be on social channels alone. And we found out that, you know, being being, as as we’ll RSVP, recall it politely relentless, was really successful for us, which is basically, we wanted to be a resource. And we wanted to be a comfort when it comes to new and relevant content, because we obviously want that to be successful for for our messaging and for our brands to be relevant and not just be disruptive.

Carly (00:08:53)

I totally agree. I think polite, relentless is probably my favorite, saying. I’ll pay him royalties every time I use it in an email. That said, though, talking again, on the data’s perspective, I mean, we’re in the landscape of digital media data drives most if not all, the choices that we make as media buyers, for this type of messaging, and assuming how quick you need to act, what is the process? Like?

Ashley (00:09:23)

Yeah, that’s a really, really great question. Right. So I think it’s definitely been a challenge for all agencies. And it’s forced all of us to be more agile than we. And we already thought we were agile, right? And then this situation comes along, and we’re like, well, we have to be way more agile than we ever had been in the past. So I think we really had to lean on, you know, the strategy side of our brains and populate proprietary data on top of our data source partnerships. So we needed to have a true and real understanding of who our audience was and how their identities behaviors perceptions are fluid, and constantly changing. And this has always really been the case. But now more so than ever. So, you know, if we don’t have that true understanding, then we’re really using the past to inform the future versus being on the flip side and saying, you know, we want to predict future changes and plan for them. If that makes any sense.

Carly (00:10:22)

No, it totally does. It’s, it’s kind of in a way like you, you look at your analytics, and you make a lot of your decisions for future based planning off of that. But when it comes to like social climate, and Pandemic climate, you can’t really make those decisions based on the past behaviors. Because this is a wild west situation. It’s never, by here, unprecedented one more time. But that’s really what it is. So I mean, as much as I hate that in an email, it’s, it’s truly unprecedented. We don’t have a standard for this. I think what was really interesting too, is a lot of providers were like, here’s what we’re seeing in terms of a data perspective, here’s what we’re seeing in terms of like, where people are shutting off and where they’re pivoting to, and like you said, people are turning to social for their news, as scary as that can be. I think that even ties into our next question from an analytics perspective. I’m sure clients also want to understand how changing the message can affect the brand’s perception. caveat, we are still really early on in this situation, and we won’t really fully understand the effects of it probably until 2021. But has there been any initial analytical data that has helped showcase this? Has it highlighted a better brand perception at the end of the day?

Ashley (00:11:39)

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. So all of our brands are obviously really impacted by COVID. And also by the BLM Movement, and our agency, you know, is one of is one of those brands that definitely wanted to have a voice upfront. The thinking about analytical perspective, I think the first thing that comes to mind is what we did when we produced a set of COVID articles for WebMD, with care and treatment centers, and we saw, you know, an immediate spike and engagement for this content. And we also noticed a lot of geographical shifts, right. So COVID cases slowed down in markets like Philadelphia and New York when they started to spike in West Palm Beach. So we were really able to use that data and, and push those messages into that market and really use dollars effectively and use that current, you know, real time data to show that the consumers were valuing that information. When maybe months ago, when this all first started, it was a more popular content piece in the Philadelphia or the New York market. So it’s honestly been pretty fascinating to watch the shifts in real time. And now we’re in a landscape where we’re making daily decisions about what about where we’re spending our dollars, and what content makes the most sense in which geographical market.

Carly (00:12:59)

I think in terms of understanding, like, where your dollars are going, it’s almost like you guys are being more conscientious of okay, West Palm Beach, we’re seeing a lot more COVID cases, specifically here in New York, Philly, it’s dying down, we’re going to push more of our dollars towards that specific market at the end of the day, and make sure that those who are consuming our content, or are getting the content that they need, really, you did mention BLM also having an effect and I think tying into an emotional based advertising as well. I’ve also noticed how socially conscious your agency is, what has Allen & Garritsen done internally to address diversity and inclusivity?

Ashley (00:13:38)

Well, first and foremost, we’re thrilled that you’ve noticed some of our DNI efforts, because that just means that our communication efforts are really making an impact. And you know, as brand communicators, I think it’s it’s our duty almost, to use our channels to help share these values and really educate our industry. So we definitely have been dedicating a lot of our space on social media, and on our website as a resource and really focusing on things like the Facebook boycott, and showing people where they can donate and just lifting new voices and showcasing our diversity. So. So the past several months, have definitely been full of conversations. You know, we’ve had a lot of open forums that include everyone from, you know, our CEO, Andrew Graf, all the way to our summer intern who’s amazing Jordan. And these are open transparent dialogues about, you know, how we not only as like individuals, but also as a full independent agency can improve our efforts, because while you said like, oh, wow, we’ve noticed a lot of a lot of socially conscious things that you’re doing, we still have work to do, just like everybody else. So now’s the time to kind of improve our efforts and create more diverse and inclusive environments, not just like for, you know, the agency itself but also for our clients and our business partners and the communities you know, We have two offices in two in two major cities. And so it’s really, you know, our duty to, to foster that. So I think, one, you know, one big takeaway I can say that we’ve done this summer is launched our ag advocates program, which I’m a part of. And that’s to drive our collective efforts. And we basically create policy change in our agency. And so we’re, we understand that, like, all these conversations are great, they should have, you know, they should have been happening all along. But what really is going to drive change in our industry specifically is, is, you know, keeping our leaders accountable our clients accountable and creating actionable benchmarks that are actually going to measure our progress in the space versus just checking boxes. We don’t want to be, we don’t want to be doing this because we think we’re supposed to be doing it. We’re just a really passionate group of people who, who are just glad this is a conversation now I’m glad that we can be a part of this movement. So, you know, our first step was, was building out the brand’s best self, and sort of uncovering our diversity statement. And so I thought this was a brilliant line. I think it was, maybe Erin, or Derek one of our Derek obviously, our VP and Aaron’s one of our copywriters. But she said, you know, we really sell ourselves on, we’re building a brand’s best self, but we can’t build a brand’s best self, unless we’re all free to be ours. And I just thought that was such a, you know, my draft statement. I loved it. I thought that was like, very, very inclusive of our language and our passion about this project.

Carly (00:16:34)

That’s like an extremely powerful statement.

Ashley (00:16:38)

I love it. I just really loved it.

Carly (00:16:41)

Yeah, it really makes you think, too, as you were saying, and I was like, wow, that that’s huge. I think like you said to, AMG has always been a very passionate team. And to hear what you guys are doing, I think is amazing. And leading those conversations. So I am definitely going to keep an eye out for additional things, and actually building on that. What diversity and inclusivity initiatives are on the roadmap as we continue to move forward.

Ashley (00:17:09)

Yeah, I think we have a lot of a lot of things that were long standing relationships. So a G has a long standing relationship with Big Brothers and Big Sisters. And so we have the kids come into the office and once a month and eat pizza, and they’re so cute. And so you know, excited to be there. So that’s been something that we’ve had going on for a long time, as well as, you know, some educational partnerships with Bentley University and Boston College and But moving forward. So far, Andrew has already been in the race ahead, which is the the moving together panel moving forward together panel, which is really exciting. So he’s definitely stepping up and being, you know, representing our agency in this space really well. And then, I think from like a pillar standpoint, for DNI specifically, you know, talent is obviously a huge thing. So we want to increase our hiring pool, and career pathing and really casting a wider net for talent. And that includes, you know, training and development, we want to, we want to have a dedicated budget and leadership, training events, calendars continue with our monthly open forums. And then from a financial support standpoint, we even went to think about, you know, our suppliers, and like, when we have like a big party or whatever, are we getting catering from the same three places? You know, can we do something with annual scholarships? Can we do something where we were really diversifying the people that we’re supporting in our community from a business standpoint as well?

Carly (00:18:39)

That’s even really thinking outside the box. I think a lot of the times when we are focusing on DNI, you’re probably looking more internally. And to even think from our perspective of what businesses are we supporting when we do have events, that’s definitely something I didn’t think of either. So to hear that, too. And also, again, I had no idea about the Big Brothers and Big Sisters program. I think that’s absolutely amazing. Once a month, like I’m sure they’re really adorable, too. But I’m also kind of jealous that I’m not there for the pizza. So that said to I think we actually talked a while back and we discussed how the DNI initiative is something else that you guys have been showcasing to your clients when it comes to even pitch decks. Can you talk a little bit about that process and what the overall response has been?

Ashley (00:19:33)

Yeah, so we did have, you know, a relatively large pitch in the last couple of months and diversity was obviously top of mind. And I think the exercise for us was really about redefining diversity, which I thought was just really cool, you know, because everybody thinks about diversity in one lane, right? It’s either their skin color, their religious background, their you know, and it’s really just so much bigger than that. So we looked at things like physical and and emotional and mental disabilities, right? So that could be considered, you know, a diverse, underserved segment. And I thought that when I went to the 3% conference, which was virtual this year, so I went to my living room to safely watch the seminar. And I went all the way the living room, there was no topic, but the 3% conference had two women. And I feel so badly via that, but I forget the name of their company, but they were working with Nike. And they identified that, you know, Nike does a lot of things with there’s a lot of things really, really Right, right. So they, you know, they, they showcase different types of people and their ads and whatnot. But they didn’t realize that the physically disabled audience is actually using a lot of their sports related products, like their gloves, their jackets that zipped from the bottom so that when they sit, they’re not, you know, putting strain on the zippers and all this kind of stuff. And so it’s like, rather than featuring those people in their ads, you want to target them with your ads, you know what I mean? Which is two totally different things. And I just thought that those two women were so well spoken. And so it just made a lot of sense to me. And it’s one of those things, it’s like, well done, how come nobody’s thought of this yet, you know, so I loved that I loved 3% conference, it was really impactful this year, and talked a lot about diversity change. So So for us, I think it was just about redefining what diversity looks like. And not saying like, you know, we’re gonna make three print ads, and there’s going to be one African American family, one Asian family, one white family, that’s not diversity in your advertising. It’s really thinking way, way, way deeper than that, and thinking about people’s experiences, and how you can make messaging and place ads where and when it’s relevant to them. versus, you know, trying to just diversify the imagery in your ads.

Carly (00:21:52)

That totally makes sense. I think, like, a lot of the times, we’re just trying to check a box to say we did it. And like you said, it goes further than that. It’s understanding the consumers experience, whether they’re a part of a marginalized community or not. But like, it’s about understanding and speaking to them on that level, and reaching to them when it is relevant, versus just saying, Oh, this is what we’ve done. But what can you do to hold yourself accountable? Yeah, exactly. I think on that note, too, what is the one key takeaway from like, the past five months that you and AMG believe has lasting momentum?

Ashley (00:22:30)

Yeah. So I think that if I only have to pick one more, you know, we saw a lot of brands that desire to stay silent, right, and decided to wait it out. And didn’t predict, you know, that this time would be different. This is, you know, everybody keeps saying it’s a movement, not a moment. And so as an agency, we decided to speak out very boldly on social media, supporting Black Lives Matter. You know, offering anti racist resources, educating on the social media boycott with Facebook. And, you know, not only did we not get any pushback on this, but we got so much praise for it. You know, the New York Times reached out to us last week, or the week before, about, you know, our Facebook boycott imagery. The Philly ad club has reached out to us, you guys have reached out to us. So you know, brands that are scared, I think, are scared or or uncertain about how they should really be a part of this. I think our key takeaway here would be take a stand. And you know, don’t be afraid to be bold and vocal. And then, you know, people are gonna notice, and it’s going to be nothing but nothing but positive.

Carly (00:23:42)

Yeah, I think like, a lot of the time with the hesitation, it can be understand it’s very overwhelming thing that we’re dealing with right now. But I think education and taking a stand isn’t the best thing you can do. And you might not be 100%. Right, but you might be close to 95%. Right? And then you learn from there, and you continue to evolve forward.

Ashley (00:24:05)

Yeah. And it just it showcases just trying right. You know, I mean, like, we’re not perfect, we’re gonna, we’re gonna absolutely make mistakes. And I think that it’s just creating an environment where like, yeah, if I make a mistake, I want you to tell me about it. And I want to be better. And I want to be able to still be bold. So I think that for brands to understand that you don’t have to be perfect to be vocal, I think is like a really key point. You know, you don’t have to you don’t have to say the perfect thing. You just have to try to participate in the conversation at this point.

Carly (00:24:36)

Perfect. That’s, I love that. So, on that note, before we wrap it up, what do you believe the rest of 2020 looks like and what are your expectations for 2021?

Ashley (00:24:51)

I think that’s a hilarious question. Who knows right now? I think that 2020 As much as everybody has said like This is such a throwaway year, I completely disagree. I think there’s been some really beautiful things that have come out of this year. And I think, you know, humanity is one of them. So a lot of brands might have needed this wake up call, just to remember that, you know, we’re people in this business, and we’re marketing and advertising to people not pixels. And one of like, the most beautiful things that I that I’ve seen come out of this with all of our vendors and whatnot, is this all in this together mentality? Right. So like, and I hope that continues, right? Because it’s been something that has been just like, really powerful as an industry, like all of us coming together and trying to, to be better together and help each other out. Knowing that, you know, it’s been, it’s been unprecedented, Carly.

Ashley (00:25:53)

But, um, you know, I think, as far as expectations for 2021, like, we just really want to continue to be a part of the community. And I’m personally really excited to watch, you know, small businesses get back on their feet, families go back to whatever this new normal is, we obviously have a huge election here in the States coming up in the fall. So there’s a ton of things on the horizon. And I guess I’m saying that my expectations are that the good things that are that are going to come out that have come out of 2020 will stay true, and that humanity space, if that makes, if that makes any sense.

Carly (00:26:34)

Yeah, I think like in terms of like, 2021, it’ll be interesting. And I think the momentum that at least Alan and Garretson has started will continue onwards. And I look forward to seeing what you guys put up on those social media channels. And I look forward to hearing more about what you guys are doing internally. Ashley, thank you again, for joining me today. It’s really, really great to hear what you and the team have already accomplished and what you guys are looking to accomplish in the future. And I’m sure you’ve absolutely sparked some ideas for those listening today.

Ashley (00:27:05)

Yeah, Carly, thank you so much for having us. I mean, to be asked alone with this is a great thing that you guys are doing with this podcast. And we were so honored and humbled to be a part of it. So really appreciate your time and for the invitation. So we had a lot of fun.

Carly (00:27:18)

Perfect. Well, thanks again, Ashley.

Episode Outro (00:27:28)

Thank you very much for tuning into this episode today. If you like what you heard, it would mean the world to us. If you do these three things. Subscribe to the show and leave us a review. If you’re listening to this and know someone who would find this episode valuable. Please share it with them. And finally, please share it on LinkedIn. If you have questions or feedback or would love to learn how agencies or brands work with StackAdapt, find us at www.stackadapt.com Thanks for listening, and I’ll see you next time.

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